#it's important to fandoms way outside of spn

[eisforeidolon]

During her appearance as a guest on the spnthenandnow podcast, Cindy claimed the Dean was Ben's father, even though Jensen and Eric refuted this.

Yeah, some over invested Dean/Lisa shipper wrote up a whole ridiculous article about it [X] a while back.

Like, especially with the show going on fifteen seasons, often revisiting things, and having such an active fandom? I get how fans came to fixate on random characters or storylines they personally liked or wanted to see more of. Even (or especially) when those things were a very minor part of canon - or actually just their own fanfic and not canon at all. Including things TPTB explicitly shot down, because the show was on long enough to change who TPTB were multiple times. Meanwhile, fans feeling entitled to have media they like catered to their personal wants or they'll throw massive tantrums is an unfortunate overall trend in recent years across fandom, not just an issue with SPN. Not likeable, but I see how it happens.

What I haven't really seen outside of SPN, though? Is such a slew of entitled minor supporting actors trying to claim greater importance to a canon they were barely a part of for their own aggrandizement and hopes of being brought back. Like, the boon of ongoing cons isn't enough for them, they see all that SPN $$$ and want more of it directed their way.

You have Kim declaring she would just refuse to appear if they killed off Jody. You have Kim and Brianna bragging about deserving a spin-off where they'd show the boys how it's really done -and then throwing embarrassing public tantrums on SM when the network gave it the pass it deserved. You have Rob and Rich doing a podcast where it's not only obvious they don't actually like or respect the show? But they can't even be bothered to pay attention as they 'watch' it to milk the fandom through promises of insider info. Which aside from their own barely-there and therefore hardly expert insider status? Includes such, uh, gems as Cindy randomly claiming years after the fact Ben was actually Dean's kid and she totes played it that way - despite the canon and despite Kripke's explicit denial back when it was remotely relevant (as well as Jensen's).

All of this from people where not a one of them was involved in more than around 20ish of 327 episodes. But saying things certain over-invested fans want to hear gets them attention, $$$, and just might make them seem like 'fan favorites' that should be brought back! Yeah.

[idlingintheimpalapodcast]

New Episode Alert: What is going on with SPN? A discussion about fandom spaces with Nicole, a real-life anthropologist

Got a really interesting one for you this week folks ('They're all interesting episodes, Kasey'. Excellent point voice in my head)

Okay, we've got something pretty different this week. A little while ago our lovely Sandra was interviewed as part of someone's dissertation research. A few of you probably remember Nicole, the lovely researcher who was in some fandom spaces learning about our crazy lil world.

Well her dissertation is finished now & she agreed to come have a chat with us about her process (heh), her findings and her experience.

If you love hearing Kasey trip over themselves with questions, then get frustrated at the lack of solid answers then this is the episode for you. (So many questions y'all. But no answers. I was going crazy)

But far more importantly, a really great look into our fandom ecosystem and how it all keeps working & balancing & growing. Absolutely fascinating stuff, give it a listen! Listen on Spotify Watch on Youtube:

Chapter Timestamps

00:00:00 - Intro

00:02:28 - Meet the researcher behind the study

00:05:07 - Nicole’s personal fandom and fanfic journey

00:06:56 - The struggle to break out of lurk mode

00:10:08 - Lurking and the methods of anthropology

00:11:32 - Ethnography = radically hanging out

00:16:30 - Fanfic spaced use and user migration

00:17:46 - Why observe a SPN FanFic Discord server?

00:19:39 - Had Nicole read SPN FanFic prior?

00:22:32 - How the server research was conducted?

00:28:23 - Can passion allow you to be objective?

00:33:09 - The art of researching people

00:36:06 - Getting permission to study and entire server

00:40:36 - The outsiders looking in on fandom

00:42:34 - Digital anonymity

00:44:43 - Are subject details not as important in anthropology today?

00:48:01 - Wholeism

00:50:13 - A disconnect between who you are online and in real life

00:54:54 - How the research changed?

01:00:32 - Relationship between the body and what we read

01:02:50 - Collective cognition

01:08:50 - Being creative with others

01:10:25 - The different levels of sharing in the creative process

01:11:46 - What things are needed to keep a fandom ecosystem healthy?

01:16:57 - The change in how readers engage

01:18:57 - Learned ways of being social are not the same on all platforms

01:22:25 - The self-promotional aspect of creating

01:27:14 - How fanfic writing can lead to original publishing?

01:28:39 - Reader norms and culture

01:30:30 - Writer and reader clashes

01:35:36 - How important was feeling safe for members of the server?

01:39:09 - Knowing when to leave a space

01:42:26 - Finding a nice space to share in creativity

01:44:45 - The energy of the fandom

01:46:18 - The collaboration of fanfic creation

01:52:38 - How much agency do fanfic writers have over their blorbos?

01:55:23 - How do writers write for their reader insert audience?

02:00:23 - The magic of reality in fiction

02:02:39 - Is Dean Winchester running the show?

02:07:57 - Who has ownership over a fictional character?

02:13:24 - How fanatical is the Supernatural fandom?

02:18:33 - The conundrum of collaborative storytelling

02:21:27 - Who gets to say if they’re gay?

02:25:22 - How fanon influences canon

02:30:20 - Nicole’s final research thoughts

02:33:45 - Closing thoughts and outro

We'd really appreciate it if you could support us on ko-fi. It helps massively!

[peanutbutterandbananasandwichs]

whats your opinion/how do you feel about wincest

I don't actively ship wincest, but then again I don't really engage with supernatural through a shipping lense at all. What I do usually say is that especially late seasons I do kinda view like at least platonic/weirdcest wincest as essentially canon - and actually when it comes to talking about their abuse dynamic in late seasons I do actually think its more useful/accurate sometimes to frame Sam as Dean's spouse. It's also just fundamentally part of the DNA of the show lol, like trying to divorce spn from wincest is fruitless and frankly boring!

Honestly though, the primary reason I don't engage with wincest content as much as say Sastiel is the issue of too many shippers coming from the position of viewing Sam as an extension of Dean/buying into popular fandom mythology about Sam/Dean/their dynamic. I also sometimes feel exhausted by people who I think could stand to step outside the shipping lense for 5 seconds when considering Sam and Dean's relationship (for instance having a piece of meta about Sam's experiences as an abuse victim reblogged with #wincest and not much else) - not to say of course that you can't enjoy that aspect of their dynamic as part of the appeal of shipping them (certainly that's what makes it interesting to me and is MUCH preferable to the "they are perfect for each other" approach To Me) - but I think it is important to consider Sam's experiences as him as a person first - tbh it makes the shipping dynamic so much richer that way!

That being said Sam fan wincest shippers are some of my favourite people! And frequently produce some of the most inciteful and interesting meta and fanworks about both of them and their dynamic. And I absolutely do read wincest fic - I'm just very, very picky about it (I'm also too ace to read much smut so I'm generally looking for more plot-driven stuff which does limit the options more lol).

[lol-jackles]

If I correctly decoded your "clueless and oblivious" anon it's because of this    X com kelios 1792256242812 Destiel shippers are massively butthurt and react in the usual manner by taking it out on Sam Winchester and also Jared and spreading lies in his tags.  I have Destiel blacklisted but I've seen newbie Sam fans complaining about the Destiel infection in the Sam tags and wanting to return the favor.

Link. Ah. SPN fans spent ten years telling Destiel hellers the truth, they're in the minority and a little sanity goes a long way. But nope, delusion and rudeness and death threats all the way! And not just in the SPN fandom, they spread into other fandoms like the 10 plagues of Egypt.

Ever since tumblr released their polling systems, fandoms outside of SPN finally got their revenge. In this month is not even half way over and already 4 polls hits Destiel hellers in in the face that not only are they indeed the fringe minority but also everybody hates their stupid faces and their stupidier ship.

This explains the following comments that showed up on my dash (credit to the person I stole this from):

The only thing the hellers won in the past 14 years is "You Tried"

Naturally the Destiel shippers reacted as usual, by repeating the #1 self-soothing lie in their fandom: Sam is the least important character and Jared is a baddie. Meanwhile Netflix continues to stream Sam-the-final-girl aka Supernatural, Jared's boss is now running Netflix, and even .....(x)

Did this tweet triggered AAs stans? Do I even need to answer that?

[destielfandomlore]

What happened with destiel and was it queerbaiting, queercoding, or both, and why? Also, why are we like this now, several YEARS after the finale?

Hi everyone. This blog is meant to be an archive to collect data to attempt to answer those extremely important questions and then work toward coming up with some sort of viable explanation of events for the past sixteen seventeen years. Basically, we’re trying to figure out intent on destiel and its impact on fandom.

Additional research questions we are considering:

1. Who are the players involved and what were/are their views? 

This includes the main cast, other cast, writers, crew, directors, network, general/casual audience/outsiders, con organizers, and fandom.

2. What happened in the narrative? 

This is examining the source material of the show itself to show evidence (or not) of the destiel subplot, including deleted scenes, cut or changed lines, etc.

It’s helpful to mentally break up the narrative into: s4-7 (early seasons), s8-11 (mid seasons), s12-14 (late seasons minus last season), s15, and spnwin.

3. What happened outside the show itself?

This is documenting the events and comments made surrounding the narrative and hopefully being able to come up with a comprehensive timeline of events.

When did destiel stop being a bit and start being written romantically (if it did)?

We’re also working on establishing what happened on Nov 5th and the resulting fallout since then, including destiel-related spn s16 content (referring to 2020-present, not a revival).

4. Why did things happen the way they did?

What was the point of all of this? Was destiel included in and outside of the narrative as queerbaiting or queercoding (+censorship/gaslighting by TPTB) or both?

Did the creatives involved (writers, actors, crew, directors, etc) tell the story of destiel intentionally, or was all of this an accident/coincidence and/or fanon?

What were the real world social contexts that influenced all of the above events? This is considering the impact on destiel of LGBTQ+ history in the US, toxic masculinity, social/political attitudes and differences across the country, role of internet access for fandom, etc. that may help explain what happened.

5. What is the impact of destiel on fandom, tv shows, etc. going forward?

I guess this is something we'll have to wait to find out 🤷🏻‍♀️

So that's that. As always, feel free to send an ask/submission or @ us, and if you want to help us with the chaos, you are more than welcome to reach out via DM to one of the admins!! 💙💚

(Edit 6/30/24: Right now we are good on admins but ofc you can contribute in other ways!!)

[dotthings]

Not the first time I've pointed this out but turns out it's relevant again so reminder:

bibro and brosonly lane's preachiness about how "progressive" and what great "representation" it is to discard all other forms of love outside of Sam and Dean's sibling bond and treating queer love as lesser and not worthy of being important on spn and a sibling relationship as "queer rep" is nothing but a performative, concern trolling, virtue signaling mess as certain accounts scramble over themselves to cover up their own narrow-mindness and downright gaslight queer fans about the actual hurt cause by their favorite, mister-disjointedly-rambled-on-a-panel [old drama, but Jared stans don't know when to quit perpetuating their bad behavior and narrow mindedness over these issues, in their mad rush to put their favorite on a pedestal where they can't even see the self-evident problem and deny all wrongs no matter how many people were hurt] in a queerphobic way, and the harm they themselves are doing with their narrow-minded attitudes. They can have any interpretation of the text they please, but the virtue signaling is designed at attacking queer readings and they refuse to stop. They preach about art being open to interpretation in the same breath that they aggressively keep perpetuating this endless queerphobic othering attitude.

spn has its flaws but I'm going to defend it when these people come along trying to claim spn wasn't about Love. Love of all kinds. The connections that form and why they matter. All of them. Dean and Cas's love for each other saved each other and saved the world. Canon. Argue with the wall.

There is nothing progressive about these stans and their assertions that queer love had no place on a show about Love, and their views are not reflected by the canon. (No matter its flaws, it doesn't do that. This is a stan problem, where a bad series finale handed them a certain amount of fuel and perceived validation but I promise you. This is not what spn is). Nor do their views represent the majority of spn fandom, online or offline, anywhere, I don't care. They are not the majority.

[wenellyb]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that people who say stuff like this are straight up lying? Or is there some important piece of information I'm missing?

It's unbelievable to me that some people would like that non-canon ships like Stucky or any other non-canon ships paved the way for representation in modern media. Unbelievable.

Destiel, maybe, because of how big the fandom is/was but even Supernatural and even Destiel started out small and got popular because of the fandom and the ship(s).

I feel like people who saying they started shipping non-canon couples because their wasn't any LGBT representation in the media at the time aren't being genuine. I say that because before joining Tumblr, I didn't even know shipping non-canon couples was a thing (I had heard of Destiel, but it was more of a concept to me, even though I unironically watched SPN).

I feel that was they mean is that there wasn't any representation in popular shows or maybe they mean they weren't enough main characters. But otherwise there was!!!

These are just the one I can think of on the top of my head, but there are much more and there is en more if you go outside of the US. And these are just the shows.

If we add the movies... well!!!

You want romance with a Happy Ending?

You want Murder Mystery?

You want Drama?

There are so many many more and, yes these weren't blockbusters but it's not "no représentation and Stucky and Destiel were the only options"

Grey's Anatomy started out at the exact same time as Supernatural and now has over a dozen canon LGBT characters and half of them are/were main characters (Callie, Arizona, Amelia, Teddy, Yasuda, Helm)

When I joined Tumblr, I never even for a minute thought shipping was about representation or activism because there were so many shows and movies I knew but they were barely talked about on here.

Not criticizing ships by any means but I feel like people are trying to pretend that shipping is something it isn't.

In my humble opinion, non-canon ships were never about representation. Shipping was just shipping

I wasn't on Tumblr at the time, but I was on Youtube (old school) and to me, the people who were doing edits of the canon ships, in shows and movies were the real heroes.

Some people might say : "but those characters are side characters or weren't in major blockbusters/popular shows".

But fandoms could have decided to make them more popular if they wanted. Because believe it or not, Supernatural was a niche show at the beginning and I don't think it would have been as popular or gotten as many seasons without the shippers. They chose to make the non-canon couple (at the time) popular. So the fans could have done the same with shows that have canon LGBT characters But they didn't, they focused on non-canon couples.

I have no problem with shipping non-canon couples at all, I do it too, but I'm really surprised by people who want to make it seem like it's some kind of activism... It's not.

And I know there wasn't enough representation that's true, but why focus your energy on shows with absolutely no canon LGBT characters and pretend it's activism??

You guys could have had Noah's arc or Hit the Floor renewed and you focused your energy on Marvel characters.

And some people will say they ship Destiel anyway because they want fantasy and paranormal... Well does nobody remember Dante's Cove? Was it a fever dream😂? I admit the writing was bad, but have you seen the writing in Supernatural (I say this as a SPN fan)???

And I know some people will say they ship Marvel characters because they have a bigger audience and there were no canon Queer characters in blockbusters, but I feel like that a lie too because when there were indeed Queer characters in those blockbusters, they were ignored as well. Like in the Eternals.

Fandoms can be so powerful when they want to...they can make or break a movie, so acting like the focus on non canon couples was the only option surprises me.

Shipping is just about shipping. It's a hobby.

Stucky or any non-canon Marvel ship isn't "History", it's just a ship.

Last exemple: Let's take a look at 2 popular couples from the same franchise: 9-1-1 and 911: Lone Star. Only one of the couples in canon, but Can you Guess which one is more popular on Ao3 and on Tumblr ?

The non-canon couple!

Almost 3 Times as much fics for Buddie than TK x Carlos who are an actualcouple and even got married!

Shipping non-canon couples isn't about representation but about finding a story to fantasize about, which isn't bad itself but it's bad when you pretend shipping is something it isn't?

TL:DR: Shipping non-canon couples isn't activism imo.

I would be happy to hear tour thoughts because as I said, I only joined Tumblr later so I don't have all the info.

[cr-noble-writes]

Ao3 mememe

Thanks for the tag @swaps55!!

Tagging: @bleuzombie @nickelkeep @imbiowaresbitch @rotschopf-thedrow @n0rmandysr1 and anyone else who wants to do the thing!

I haven't written as much this year as I did last year, but I have written some, and I've written some things that I am exceedingly pleased with!

How many works do you have on ao3? 130

What’s your total word count? 722,233 since 2016

What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

Season Z (Destiel & Samwena, Supernatural, rated E, collab longfic) 1379 kudos

Watching You (Destiel smut, rated E) 550 kudos

You Should See Me In A Crown (Destiel longfic, rated E) 548 kudos

Truth or Dare (Destiel smut, rated E) 541 kudos

Lock Me Up (Destiel smut, rated E) 280 kudos

Do you respond to comments? Why/why not?

Usually! It does sometimes take me like a thousand years if I am not regularly posting things just because I don't get on AO3, but as long as its not like an asshole comment, I always respond eventually! I think engaging with people who have taken the time to read something I wrote, who took the time out of their life to engage with me and tell me that they connected with something I wrote is important. I want people to feel appreciated, because I appreciate the shit out of them!

What's the fic you've written with the angstiest ending?

I wrote a little like 5k Destiel fic in like 2019 that I think has the angstiest ending I've written. But to be totally fair, I have written a lot of angst, and its really very subjective whether killing a person is more angsty than making them continue living without a soul.

What's the fic you've written with the happiest ending?

Oh gosh. I am honestly not sure? I tend toward writing angsty stories, but usually they get a happy ending. A lot of the fic I write are more like snapshots than full stories, also, so like, in terms of endings its sometimes hard for me to conceptualize whether the end of a fic is "happy" or not because its not really an end, it's more like.... a pause. Most of my longfics have relatively happy endings, though.

Do you write crossovers?

I have! Most recently I wrote a Mass Effect/Supernatural crossover for a bang. I don't think it's going to be a thing that I really continue doing because while I did enjoy writing the crossovers I've done, the ME/SPN crossover made me realize that I am inevitably more interested in one part of the crossover than the other, if that makes sense. If I want to write my lil ME guys not in the ME universe, I'll just write an AU that isn't attached to another media.

Have you ever received hate on a fic?

I was very active in the Supernatural fandom for several years, so yes lol

Do you write smut? If so, what kind?

I went through a period where I kind of felt like it was necessary to write smut to get engagement when I was in the Supernatural fandom, so I have written a lot of smut for the sake of smut. I don't write nearly as much of it anymore. That being said, I do write smut still. It's just that with very few exceptions these days, I haven't written smut outside the context of like relationship and character study as much? I do, however, think that there are characters for whom sex is a very important part of their personality and development. I also think it is a fantastic way to give insight into the way a character interacts with the world that might not otherwise be shown.

Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not that I know of.

Have you ever had a fic translated?

Not to my knowledge.

Have you ever co-written a fic before?

I have on multiple occasions. I am actually cowriting a fic right now! I am a lot more picky about who I collab with these days, just because I have done it enough times to know that I simply do not mesh with some people, whether that be in the background creative parts or in the actual writing. So I generally stick to collabing with people I know I mesh with pretty well creatively.

What's your all-time favourite ship?

The Wurst! From Dimension 20's A Starstruck Odyssey.

It's hard to say because there are very specific things that I really love from all my ships, and they all sort of satisfy a different creative need for me. That being said, the one I always come back to mShenko.

What's a WIP that you want to finish but don't think you ever will?

Back before I fell out of the SPN fandom, I started a Regency Horror AU that I really love conceptually, but I'll never finish it because I simply cannot engage with SPN in that way anymore.

What are your writing strengths?

God, I am so bad at answering questions like this haha. I think my biggest strengths are world building and character voice. I love world building, its probably my favorite part of the creative process, and solidly building the key factors of the world you're writing in gives you a strong enough foundation that you have so much freedom to fuck around. And as far as character voice, I think I have a pretty solid handle on what my characters sound like, and I am able to carry that across in dialogue and inner monologue pretty well most of the time.

What are your writing weaknesses?

I sometimes have a tendency to overdescribe things that aren't very important and underdescribe things that are. I also frequently have a difficult time carrying across emotions in a way that actually reads and makes sense.

What are your thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages in a fic?

I'm all for it if it makes sense! I also built two conlangs for the purpose of one series of fic, just for funsies.

What was the first fandom you wrote for?

Like wrote and posted for? The MCU. But I was writing fanfiction for the Xanth series by Piers Anthony in like 4th grade. I just didn't know there was a word for it and no one ever saw any of it lol

What's a fandom/ship you haven't written for yet but want to?

I don't know that I have any, honestly. I tend to be more interested in taking small things I like from other media and inserting them into the fandoms I write for already. For example, once I get to the point of writing ME3, I plan on giving EDI an array of Warframes to run around in. But I don't have any interest in writing Warframe fanfic.

What's your favourite fic you've written?

Vicissitude, hands down. It's not very long, but I did a lot of new things with it that I feel very much improved my writing, and I think its the best thing I've ever written.

[runawaymarbles]

20 questions for fic writers!

tagged by @chubsthehamster- thanks!

1. How many works do you have on ao3?

32, unless you count the book covers. I've got 106 book covers

2. What’s your total ao3 word count?

487,170

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Whatever I get stuck on at any given moment. My most recent ones are 9-1-1, Inception, ATS and Hawkeye, but my repeat fandoms are Spn, X-Men, The Old Guard and Black Sails.

4. What are your top five fics by kudos?

I'm copying chubs and doing my personal favorites, because my top four kudos'd fic are all for the same fandom (The Old Guard) and written within like three weeks of each other.

The Scroll of Saint Barnabas (9-1-1, Buddie, 15k): recency bias, but I had a lot of fun with this one. I also probably drove my girlfriend*and cousin insane during the writing process. Sorry about that. The basic premise is: we all know how time loop fics go, but what if after the loop is broken the character has PTSD from all the things that nobody else remembers? And also what if you get a knotted dildo hooked onto your permanent retainer? *though we've now established consent and parameters for whether we can have sex if one of us is stuck in a time loop. It's always important to have these conversations in advance!!!

What The Moon Was Saying (Spn, destiel, 16k.) It's about Dean rescuing Cas from the Empty, technically, but it's also about Dean working through things he refuses to think about directly, and it's also about the perspective of dead characters who aren't all-knowing and have no clue what happened after they died, and it's also about Inanna's Descent into the Underworld and how many jokes about Sumerian mythology I could fit in there that probably nobody else is going to think are funny but I think are funny, and it's also about what issues Orpheus would have had if he'd succeeded. The central thesis statement is that Margaritaville is thee Dean Winchester Mental State song.

The Mixtape, Or: Six Things You Learn in Thursday School (Spn, destiel, 6k.) I always had this idea that I was going to write a fantasy book of some kind, where the first part would be about the founding of a religion and then the following parts would jump ahead a few hundred years and see how that religion and that original story change in the telling. Instead of writing that book I wrote 6,000 words about a post-apocalyptic religion whose foundational text was the Winchester Gospels, except they don't actually have the Winchester Gospels, so they're relying on collected ephemera and thirdhand accounts. It is also about both academic and online discourse.

The House on Graymalkin Lane (X-Men, background cherik, 92k.) My nice little outsider-POV x-men haunted house fic. It started out as "the x-mansion would be a bonkers haunted house" and then it turned into a love letter to the original timeline (we barely knew ye). It's about the mortifying ordeal of being in high school and also about how all my grandparents died at once and I had a lot of complicated feelings about that.

The Ill-Made Knight (X-Men, cherik, 1.5k) OK so you know that trope that's like "if anyone is going to kill me I want it to be you"?? it's that, but instead of being used as a statement of everlasting love and devotion, it's being used as psychological warfare. And also kind of a statement of everlasting love. But in a fucked up sort of way. Because Cherik.

5. Do you respond to comments? Why or why not?

Yes! I didn't used to but I do now because I always like it when people reply to mine. Sometimes I miss them and respond years later but like... I got there eventually?

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

the whole estate of mortal man. (Black Sails, silverflint, 40k.) Silver is immortal but has a very impermanent self. Flint is mortal and has a very permanent self. There was only one way that was ever going to end and I stand by it.

7. What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

Of recent ones, I guess The Most Fun A Girl Can Have? (Kate/Yelena, 8k.) They're having a pretty good time for most of it.

8. Do you get hate on fic?

Not since like, high school.

9. Do you write smut?

Nope. Hats off to smut writers, you're doing God's work. It's very difficult.

10. Do you write crossovers?

I haven't, unless you count every Marvel fic being a crossover. And Good Omens show/book. But that seems like a cop-out.

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not as far as I know.

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

Yes! Some very kind people translated The Punishment of Sisyphus (Black Sails crackfic) and Antebellum (Black Sails, Anne & Eleanor fic) into Russian, Stalefish (Old Guard, Nile-centric) into Polish, and Kidnapping for Dummies (Old Guard, Joe shenanigans) into Spanish. I can only read the Spanish one.

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

Yessss. The #ImmortalHusbands Conspiracy (The Old Guard social media fic) with @phoenix-acid. That was very fun.

14. What’s your all-time favourite ship?

Why would you ask me this. This is cruel. I can barely pick a top 5.

15. What’s a WIP you want to finish but probably won’t?

The Marvel pirate AU, probably. It's almost a complete story on its own as it stands. There's about half a next chapter written and I could probably us that to tie things up, if I cut out a bunch of things, but I'd have to reread all my research. I did way too much research for that.

16. What are your writing strengths?

Character voices? I hope it's character voices. I watch a lot of youtube compilations before writing anyone to try and get a handle on how they talk.

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

The actual romance part of a romance. What do you mean they have to get together after I've set everything up so that they get together? Ridiculous.

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language in fic?

I've never done it before, but I respect people who can pull it off. I do really hate that trope though where a multilingual character calls their love interest pet names in their mother-tongue, when they are never shown using it that way (or mixing that language and English in a conversation) in canon.

19. First fandom you wrote for?

....percy jackson and the olympians.

20. Favourite fic you’ve written?

Since I listed five favorites up there I'm switching this with the kudos question. Fic with the most kudos is Kidnapping for Dummies (The Old Guard, 3.5k)

Tagging @monstrous-femme @thegeminisage @bomberqueen17 @ellelans @annerbhp @significanceofmoths and anyone else who wants to do it. say i tagged you. nobody will ever check to find out.

[jinkieswouldyoulookatthis]

The whole DNI banner thing in general feels very new and sad to me. Just so emblematic of the culture of trying to force everyone else to cater to the online experience you want, instead of tailoring your experience for yourself. It's one thing to expect people not to be hateful or mean in your notes, and another entirely to restrict the people you're willing to interact with to the ones you don't think are "degenerate".

Depending on how you define "shipping", I've always "shipped" Destiel and never "shipped" Wincest, but I've always enjoyed reading Wincest and Daddycest content. Specifically the darker stuff (my first big favorite spn fic was "Sins of the Innocent" by reapertownusa). I'm just not sure what, exactly, the folks who don't want to interact with "Wincesties" are afraid of. We're all just, like, regular people, and the world out there kinda thinks that *all* shippers are freaks, anyway.

As far as I can tell, and I realize that the situation will not be the same for everyone, there's this need to shun people who are deemed to be degenerates (as you said). Liking Wincest is definitely taken as a sign of real life moral failing.

Once again, I do want to stress that while I don't ship it, I have nothing against Destiel as a ship. When I first got into this fandom I read a lot of of everything and that's how I learned what worked for me and what didn't. That was in 2015 and I remember being more embarrassed about liking a ship at all than I was about being more drawn to the idea of Sam and Dean together than I was towards Dean and Castiel. So it took me a long time before I just embraced it. During that time I've seen the shift in the shipping wars, the imposed battle for morality that some seem to think that they are fighting. And I've seen it mirror the outside world's steady slide into authoritarianism.

These DNIs are not really important in the grand scheme of things, I'm a respectful person (no matter what kind of shit I may spew when I get frustrated here) and I wouldn't ever knowingly push my ship, or anything else, onto someone who made it clear they didn't want it. I even double check blogs that I reblog from (or whose gifs I add to my own posts) before adding even a wincest tag to a post, to do my best to avoid upsetting anyone. I've been yelled at too many times and generally prefer to avoid unnecessary conflict.

And that's just it, if these blogs listed that Wincest squicked them, I would do all of this to avoid upsetting them, and still be able to share this space with them. But I don't think it's just about them not being exposed to Wincest, that's part of it for sure, but it's also about them not wanting to share this space with me. They don't want me in their space at all because they have made a personal judgement against me based on the flavor of fiction that I enjoy being an idiot about on this dumpster fire of a website.

It's that I see so many posts that have nothing to do with Destiel being tagged with it which feels like another way of setting up a fence between them and those of us they think need to stay away from them. These DNIs feel like giant no trespassing signs, the really over the top ones that tell you exactly what kind of gun they'll shoot you with if you don't obey the sign. And I guess that I just expect more from tumblrinas because I assumed that we better understand what it feels like to be judged and excluded. But really, people are people, and sometimes people are scared, reactionary, assholes, even here.

[eisforeidolon]

It's not at all surprising that hellers are making asses of themselves to a whole new fandom over a ship vs. ship poll [X][X][X][X].

Again, the problem is not shipping the ship or trying to win silly fandom polls for fun. The problem is acting like the ship is The Most Important LGBT+ Cause everyone has to ship or they're homophobes. Legitimate unambiguously reciprocated canon ships? Pfft, how could they have anything on the power of D/C! There are so many gifsets and meta screeds and fanfics because there's nothing in canon! They know they represent a HUGE unavoidable part of fandom because they only ever leave their echo chamber bubbles to try to shove their ship on everyone else, so they don't realize not only how big the rest of SPN fandom is, but how big fandom as a whole is!

Through the entire run of SPN, they convinced themselves if they just screamed enough about being oppressed, badgered enough actors/writers/crew, won enough polls, and wrote enough clickbait articles on sites without editorial standards? They could not only force the show to make their ship canon but force the rest of fandom to acknowledge D/C as THE MOST IMPORTANT BEST LGBT+ lurve story EVAR. Well, only Misha and Berens were dumb enough to cater to them with that last minute throwaway one-sided ambiguous queerbait scene. Fandom at large mostly only acknowledged the "importance" of the ship by turning that scene into a mocking meme because it was that absurd.

Yet they continue on, thinking if they can just win one more poll, write one more article, give Misha money one more time ... SOON we'll all have to admit how right they were all along! Which is why they get SO salty about losing any given poll or any random article about SPN not at least mentioning D/C.

While they may mislead a few uninformed and gullible souls along the way? For the most part, what they continue to do - as they have done all along? Is turn off people by prioritizing their entitled, myopic obsession with a single specific fanon ship - while insisting it's because they care sooo much about representation! D/C is the best, most important representation possible! Because ... uh... reasons? Which only gets more and more obvious (even to outsiders), the longer the canon has been off-air.

[ardentpoop]

you talked about a post on here last night that talked about how dean’s misogyny isn’t actually misogyny but rather instilled in him by misogynistic writers - and i wonder how different spn is like this from other media (i don’t really know spn intimately outside of what you post about it, but the absolute deconstruction of jacob in the hands of smeyer post-transformation rings to mind how is flaws aren’t because of the character but because of the writer’s bias etc etc) where it’s easier to spot when it’s in the character purposefully versus when it’s a flaw in the writers room (like early 2000s shows trying to write women characters without having them rely on a man) and why there’s such a disconnect with spn and dean in particular? 💕

thank you for the question <3

I’ll be honest it is Always silly to me to try to force this separation between The Character as you the reader perceive them and the biases they exhibit that may or may not also be those of the author. like there are ways to assess the latter of course and I highly recommend that everyone practices bc I think trying to understand the messages an author is intentionally imparting on their readers and what those messages might say abt their perspective overall IS important, but regardless of this if the character is (e.g.) a dick to women they’re a dick to women. lol. the reader liking the character and thus being uncomfortable acknowledging/working with this part of them doesn’t change that!

there is of course always taking the character and reimagining them, which fandom does all the time in ways I do not enjoy lmfao, but in theory one could maintain the character’s core “unpleasant” traits (which in the case of a character like dean are actually very important to his portrayal) without reinforcing those traits as Heroic. idk it’s like. using the same archetype that the canon is passionately in love with but without making the rest of the story and every other character in it march to the tune of that archetype. if that makes sense. it’s hilarious and immensely satisfying when a side character makes fun of dean in canon For A Reason.

also to use jacob as an example since you brought him up - I’m not sure of the specific change in characterization that you’re referring to but there’s a difference to me btwn - for example - understanding the serious concerns wrt meyer’s portrayal of the members of the quileute tribe and attempting to reimagine jacob’s character arc with that in mind, and like. not being able to enjoy him as a character unless you edit out his genre-typical misogynistic behavior, or the renesmeee nonsense as a whole lmfao. like ultimately those are the core events! you can tilt them however you prefer in fanfiction especially if your aim is to transform the characters, but if you need to erase them entirely and build the character from scratch perhaps the canon is just unsalvageable for you. I’m talking to myself too bc I am not immune to this impulse lol, especially when it comes to long-running stories where the characters change over time.

anyway it is funny that many people laser-focus on jacob as a controversial twilight character specifically in the context of his relationships with other characters (mostly just bella and renesmee lbr) when edward is…..edward.

the TL;DR of why dean is a particularly egregious case of fanon/canon disconnect is because he has mass appeal due to being hot and white and The Man of this story that is For Men and thus narratively validated and venerated at every turn of the plot. the people he appeals to who don’t belong to the target demographic don’t know how to reconcile their enjoyment of him with his uh. unsubtly stated purpose as a character, so we get mind-boggling hot takes like “dean’s misogyny is feminist, actually” on a daily basis around here.

[schizosamwincester]

Hey, aplatonic!Sam anon again.

First, I guess I just wanted to refute the idea that my reading of Sam as gaining a better understanding of himself as the show goes on, means that I see spn as a hopeful show versus a tragedy. I very much see it as a tragedy. I guess it's just that for me, the reason it's a tragedy is because my interpretation of Dean is of someone who has never wanted to hunt but didn't see a way out; someone who craved connection outside of his family and, despite God himself working against him, managed to claw his way to form friendships that were incredibly important to him only to have (almost) each and every single one of his closest friends die *because* they were his friends and *because* they loved each other as friends: Charlie, Benny, Cas... hell, even Crowley fits here.

The tragedy I see for Sam, meanwhile, is him finally growing to accept that he enjoys the hunting life -- he wants to dedicate himself to expanding the hunter network, become the next Bobby, live with his brother -- only to have his life partner (Dean) die in his arms and leave him alone. Then he abandons hunting for a life that -- we can only assume due to how it looked in the montage we were given -- is unfulfilling and depressing.

I do know what you mean by there being different readings of Sam within fandom. I admit fully that I have my own biases, and that I find the people who see Sam as being hopelessly traumatized and withdrawn in later seasons just... aren't watching the same character that I am. I love Sam's strength and stubbornness and the crazy, dangerous things he's willing to do to save his brother, and what he overcame to carve out a life for himself that he finds meaning and pride in. I love that he goes from not wanting to be a freak, to thinking that he's a freak and it's a bad thing, to embracing freakdom and being proud of himself. I just don't see the same Sam that some people see.

I guess in response to your comment on charisma, that's true. But I don't feel like Dean forms bonds solely from charisma. Like I mentioned above, he has strong feelings of friendship for various characters, and those friendships aren't solely based on them being attracted to his "charisma". Heck, Cas is only Dean's friend because Dean wanted to be his friend, and Dean is the one constantly reaching out to him to check in and asking to hang out while Cas is off ignoring him in favor of his angelic duties or his own missions. Charlie and Benny are other characters who Dean clearly feels strongly about. Benny and Crowley, in fact, are friends that Dean has that Sam isn't even friends with at all. And when Dean was planning to end his life in s14, he took a road trip to visit Donna and eat a burger with her because he loved her as a friend and their friendship was important enough that he wanted to see her one more time before he died.

Obviously we can share different readings, though, and I respect your headcanon.

Yeahhhhh... your reading is cool and all but like, if you end up being correct, I'm not going to enjoy later season very much. Very much a lot of the reason I like Supernatural is because it's the rare media where people don't have friends all the time. It's weird because in real life I very much am friending, but in media? Every time I've consumed a media and gone "hey wait. That was really good. Why did I literally never think about it again after I finished it?" the answer is that there were friends in it. Pretty much everything I've ever gotten obsessed with, the characters have no friends. So to me, I really like that supernatural is all about family and even their "friends" are more like coworkers. Like Cas and Dean, for example, have a really interesting relationship because I would not call them friends. I wouldn't be able to label what the heck they are to each other. It's very much "this is Cas. He is the person I know. When I have problems or need a person. I call him" and vice versa. Like... it's muddied a bit by the fact that I definitely see one-sided destiel, but even still, I would not exactly call them a traditional friendship.

But yeah, if a big part of supernatural to you is any kind of theme of friendship, we are just never going to be interpreting this the same way. And that's fine by me. Other people are allowed to be really into platonic interpretations. But it is decidedly not my thing.

And yeah, we are in agreement that poor blorbo cinnamon roll Sam is boring. Like. The first things he did were (fake) jump off a bridge and drive into a house. He tells Dean that they're above death. He drinks blood. He chops Paris Hilton's head off with an axe. Etc etc etc. People in this fandom really want to turn either Sam or Dean into their nice palatable self-inset Mary Sues and like. No they are both very interesting and deep characters and also terrible people.

[destielficarchive]

PSA: Livejournal in Danger?

Those paying attention to the awful news coming out of Eastern Europe and Russia likely have already heard that Russian President Vladimir V. Putin is planning to cut Russia off from the international internet on March 11. There's no way to know, before it happens, how exactly this will impact Russian access to international servers/websites or how this will impact international access to servers/websites hosted in Russia. The range of possible outcomes for people outside Russia is wide, everything from "no noticeable impact at all" through "complete loss of access to anything hosted in Russia." (For people in Russia, impacts will also presumably vary - if you're in Russia now would be a good time to get a crash course in how to use a good VPN...)

But. That's not why I'm posting about that on this fic archive Tumblr.

Livejournal, as of 2016, is hosted on Russian servers.

Don't panic, but if you've got a favorite fic that's only available on Livejournal, now would be a great time to back it up.

Don't panic, but if you still have a personal or fandom Livejournal and you don't want to lose it, now would be a great time to import your entire blog to Dreamwidth.

Don't panic, but...this could potentially be a huge disaster for fanfiction communities, and there's far too little time to try to "rescue" all the content potentially in danger, and any preparation we do may end up being unnecessary, but...better prepared than weeping for the fic that's gone.

(Also, if anyone reading this has a few hours between now and Thursday, I'd appreciate a ping - I have 281 "to download" fics on my masterlist that I haven't yet had time to grab from LJ, and I'd really like to get them all, and there's absolutely no way I can do it myself. I just don't have time. If you think you DO have time, please get in touch...)

[pray4jensen]

Twitter rn is full of ppl criticising dean cas fans calling them fetishising and making everything about their fanon ship then proudly have “Wincest” in their bio like you really want to talk about fetishising?? The hypocrisy astounds me

gonna be honest with you, idk how these ppl can be all up on twitter fighting over fandom ships when there is a pandemic raging outside, when people are suffering left and right, and when the work being done for the black lives matter movement has never been more important

all i can say is i suggest these ppl get some perspective; i love spn and it means a lot to me in very profound ways, but it does not compare with the importance of real lives being at stake so to see ppl fighting over ships at this moment of time leaves me a little empty

[givemearmstopraywith]

technically i dont have anything against fanfic as long as its kept in its proper place but objectively i think that considering it a form of literature by arguing that its more inclusive than mainstream lit is incredibly insidious and ignorant. for one thing it is stripping both writers and readers of their ability to engage critically with texts in favour of reducing all text down to core parts- is it queer? is it diverse? does it fulfill the right quota of moral markers for me to consume it and reassure both myself and the audience of my reading that i am the “right” kind of consumer? 

this is problematic for a number of reasons, including that it presupposes that the value of all art- not just fanfic- is based on moral content and its ability to be consumed morally, which is not a new way of thinking but, when it has been shown up in the past, has usually developed alongside moral panics. attributing a moral value to a work of art, which is not created out of morality but out of creativity, is the first step towards censorship. we see this in a variety of circumstances throughout history, none of which are things we should try to emulate.

for another its insulting to the queer and bipoc writers who pursue traditional publishing, and do so successfully. when i see arguments concerning the importance of fanfic, it very typically falls into the rhetoric of the fact that it represents the stories of underrepresented or historically marginalized groups, but what actually are the most popular fanfics on ao3? according to screenrant the top five are:

castiel and dean winchester

sherlock and john watson

derek hale and stiles stilinski

bucky barnes and steve rogers 

draco malfoy and harry potter

what i am seeing is that fanfic is primarily concerned with white cis men. there is not a single person of colour or canonically gay person in that entire list. and yes, you may argue about the transformative power of fanfic, but creating a fantasy narrative in which a white cis male fulfills a certain number of quota in or outside of a fantastical narrative (you can’t tell me that a/b/o developing in the spn fandom was a big win for gay people) is not progressive, nor it is actually addressing issues of systemic oppression. especially when the consumption of fanfic, outside of fanfic, seems to turn into people who almost exclusively consume only YA lit because its more “diverse” that literary or adult fiction, which is completely and categorically untrue and symptomatic more of laziness on the part of the consumer than it is a lack of representation in publishing. 

there was a tipping point in fanfic culture in the last decade or so where it ceased to be a collaborative safe space for people and instead became a crutch which is now being used to bash anything deemed morally subversive or averse by what appears to be a consumer base of people who reduce all art and text down to consumable parts according to a fairly benign standard of morality. it is turning the act of reading from something which is meant to broaden and transform experience into something which feeds itself the same formula repeatedly in favour of keeping personal experience almost entirely in stasis. fanfic is not transforming literature, it is rather disturbingly allowing consumers to not interact with anything unlike themselves while simultaneously having the more disturbing effect of bringing continual attention to massively successful, corporatized storytelling like marvel and harry potter instead of the truly marginalized stories and diverse authors people claim they want to read but simultaneously claim doesn’t exist for their consumption. 

what it comes down is that people dont care about diversity: they care about what keeps them comfortable.